Fallen Pastor

My site is discovered because of all types of searches. But one of the most common search phrases is “Why do pastors commit adultery?”

I did. Four years ago. I wasn’t looking to commit adultery – and I don’t believe most pastors who cross the line are looking for it. I wrote a book about my fall and the stories of eleven other men who fell. I learned a lot about the circumstances that can make a pastor weak. Pastors are responsible for their sin. There are emotional, marriage, church and other issues that I outline in my book that can make the pastor weak.

So how is it that those who are the most respected people in our communities can commit a sin that most everyone finds to be the ultimate example of betrayal? Even in Scripture, God uses the language of adultery to compare Israel to be a people who have abandoned Him spiritually.

Let’s back up for a moment. Without sounding cynical, I have always found it interesting how most people watch television and movie dramas. My favorite example is the movie, “Bridges of Madison County.” If you’re not aware of the plot, after a woman dies in her old age, her children discover she had a brief affair with a photographer a long time ago. The movie basically justifies her adultery by showing how much the woman needed attention, was neglected by her husband and how the photographer filled a void in her life. If you watch the movie, you will probably find yourself justifying her actions.

But this is not a one time occurrence. Soap operas, movies, television, reality television (those are all very interesting links, by the way) are all set up to create sexual tension. Not to mention the 50 Shades drama over a year ago. We discovered that one of the main reading audiences was Christian women. We have a sexually charged society. We find ourselves rooting for characters to cheat on their spouses, but it’s okay, because they’re only characters in a fictional story.

But when adultery happens in our social circles or in our family, we find it appalling. And we should. Because it is.

But hold on for a second. When we see sex on the big screen, it is sensationalized and made to look like it has no consequences. Just like most violence. The first movie I can remember that ever showed the consequences of violence was “Unforgiven.” (Lots of Clint Eastwood in this blog.)

So where am I going with all of this?

I’m not justifying pastoral adultery. Don’t hear me saying that culture has made us weak and so any of us are prone to commit sin. No, that’s not it. But we do have an interesting social standard. We often think we are immune from television, the songs we hear, or the movies we watch. But we aren’t. How many of us tell our children, “Garbage in, garbage out“?

In my book, I note several things that lead a pastor to weakness: poor relationship with spouse, isolation, conflict with church, and overly high expectations.

Uncontrolled and not getting help, any of us can be weakened to a point where we will commit sin. But adultery is one of the sins that most Americans seems to hate the most. Despite the fact that statistics show that 25% of Americans have cheated on their spouse but not been caught.

Should pastors or any other person cheat? No. It’s a sin. Are there factors that make people weak? Yes. When we commit sin, it’s ours. We own it. Temptation may lead us to a sin, but we don’t have to commit it.

When someone is caught in an affair, there is obviously something that is fulfilling a desire for them. And it’s happening on several fronts. There is a need that they feel their spouse isn’t fulfilling. There is an escape from stress or conflict. Guilt? Yes. But the risk is greater than the reward.

But nothing ever lasts like that. Affairs are temporary. Any way it goes, one of the people figures out that it’s a fairy tale or both of them figure out that they really want to be together. Everything falls apart. One of them wants everything or one of them realizes the risks and knows it’s not worth it. Maybe it’s guilt, maybe it’s true repentance. But most of the time the remorse comes after the physical sin has occurred.

I can’t tell you how many pastors have contacted me and said “Well, I’ve cheated, my wife doesn’t know, but I’ve stopped seeing the woman I was with. I’m just going to stop. I think I can go on like I was before.” No, you can’t. Scripture says that our sin will find us out.

One statistic in my book is that 33% of conservative clergy have crossed the line with a woman not heir spouse but have not been caught.

Why do pastors commit adultery? The same reason anyone else does. Because we sin. Because we allow ourselves to get weak and don’t reach out for help. Because we think we are stronger than we are. But we are not. We all need help. We need a community of faith, mentors, friends, family and a net to fall into.

But we fall when we think we can manage our grief, our pain, our conflict, our pain all on our own. We decide to find comfort elsewhere. We never would have considered it before, but when our souls are in pain, we will be more susceptible than we have ever been. All of us. Not just pastors.

So pray for your leaders. The stress is great. If you want to know more, I’ve blogged a lot about it. Or read the Kindle or paperback version of my book.

As always, if you need help, please click the “contact” button above.

I cannot write posts like this often enough – if you have committed any kind of sexual sin and have been removed from your church – or even if you haven’t been caught – there is help for you.

Let me start with this. I can see how people reach my site by the search engine terms they use. Typically, it’s something like “fallen pastor” (go figure), “list of fallen pastors“, “my pastor committed adultery” or whatever. Lately, it’s been, “what does rock me mama like a wagon wheel mean?”

But I got a disturbing search the other day that led someone to my site. It said, “I’m a pastor and I want to kill myself.” No one contacted me and I never heard from the person who searched for that.

Listen closely. No matter what situation you’re in, I am here to listen. I fell from the ministry due to my own sexual sin and I know the times can get tough and despairing. I’ve talked to a lot of fallen pastors and they considered suicide. But that isn’t the answer. Don’t ever hesitate to reach out for help.

There are a lot of people out there that need help. The statistic that gets quoted a lot and that I quote in my book is that 1,500 pastors a month leave the ministry due to conflict, burnout or moral failure. Even if a third of those ministers, 500 of them, are leaving due to moral failure, that means there are a lot of pastors out there who need help.

So who might be out there? Do you fall into a group that might need help? Maybe you’re hesitant to contact someone. let me share with you some of the types of people I talk to and what you can expect.

1. Ministers who have fallen from their churches because of sexual sin. Whether they’ve reconciled with their wives or not and whether they got kicked straight to the curb or not, I’m here. I won’t judge, I just want to listen. I know where you are and I know what it feels like. I can listen, offer advice and tell you what the next few months are going to be like. Even if you’ve been fallen for a long time, I can still help. And if I can’t help, I can refer you to someone who can.

2. Church members who have been hurt by a fallen pastor. Whether they are leaders or people who placed a lot of faith and trust in their pastor, I’m here to listen. They ask a lot of “why” questions. I can offer insight, but not excuses. It doesn’t hurt to ask questions. I may not be able to give you a perfect answer, but I might be able to put you on the right path.

3. Spouses of pastors who cheated on them. Yeah, believe it or not, I get these emails too. They also want to know why. And I can help with that as well. Many ask, “how am I supposed to feel?” or “what do I do if he’s not coming home?” Each situation is very different.

4. Women who had an affair with a pastor and now find themselves on the outside, scorned by the church. Most pastors cheat on their wives with women in the church. In fact, the majority of the men I interviewed in my book cheated on their spouse with her best friend. Women in this situation are in need of help and the love of Christ as well. My wife started blogging about a year ago and she has helped several women who have been in this situation. If that’s where you are, please visit her blog and contact her.

5. Pastors who are considering adultery, engaged in adultery (but haven’t been caught), or are consumed in an emotional affair. If this is you, you probably feel one of two ways. You’re either immersed in your situation and don’t want help. It’s because you are so enamored with the one you’re with that you are in denial of your circumstances. Or, you may suddenly realize you are in over your head. Again, I’m here to talk.

Whatever you’re going through, there is someone you can talk to. Don’t wait until it’s too late. And hey, if it feels like it’s too late, it never is with Christ. He restores all sinners back to Him.

Lately, both Allison and I have been ministering to fallen ministers and their significant others. A recurring theme has arisen in many of these conversations: “How angry is the ex-wife/husband in the relationship allowed to get?”

Obviously, I have experience in this arena. I hurt my ex horribly with my actions. Hurt is the emotion that arises first, then anger. Then, both of those actions work together in an often disastrous mix. I’m happy to say my former wife and I have a good relationship today.

The sin of adultery is one that cuts right to the core of humanity. Have I felt it? No, but I am the one who caused the hurt. Since my fall from ministry, I have talked to those who have been on both sides of the fence. I have heard stories of messy divorces, arguments in public, punches thrown, and angry things said to children. All of these are the consequences of sin.

The hurt doesn’t just extend to spouses. The hurt runs deep in the church as well. Weeks and months after the fall of the minister, church members hurt and anger can extend to gossip in the community, social media such as Facebook or personal altercations.

The fallen pastor may also take place in the lashing out process. He may engage in the same arenas of speaking out, justifying his actions, showing passive aggressive behavior, or getting defensive when approached.

All three of these groups show similar characteristics. All will probably say they are justified in their anger. The church, spouse and family of the spouse will point to the fallen pastor’s actions as the touchstone of their anger. It will continually be the reason for every angry action they take. “He’s the one who sinned. He caused all of this.”

The pastor who may or may not have asked for forgiveness from God may feel that he has been forgiven. He may say, “God has forgiven me, I’m moving on.”

To be sure, it is a difficult and anxious situation. I know that being in the midst of it is a continually stressful and awful time. For this blog post, I’m going to assume any range of possibilities – that the relationship between pastor and spouse could work out or that it could end in divorce. I pray that any situation be resolved. But I’d like to throw out some suggestions that might help for anyone on either side of the situation. (Also, as a disclaimer, I’m guilty of doing most of these things wrong.)

Christ calls us to be peacemakers. This applies to both sides. Being a peacemaker is not an easy thing. Especially when the other “side” is aggressive and angry. It’s especially difficult when you are also angry and want the other side to understand your position. But when you engage yourself into the position of peacemaker, you are taking upon yourself true humility.

To do so, you have to not allow things to escalate. Regardless of what someone says to you or how they say it, you must stay calm, even and at peace. Realize that peace doesn’t come from circumstances around you, but from Christ within you. Is it difficult? Yes, but it is possible.

Read more after the jump…

In this series, I’m trying to address all of the people who are effected by the fall of a pastor. Not only that, I’m asking, what can everyone do in the wake of his fall?

I get emails each week from many different people; pastors who just fell, wives whose husbands fell, churches whose pastors fell, etc. – and most are in a state of panic. “What happens now? What am I supposed to do right now?”

There are no easy answers. There isn’t a handbook that gives a quick answer. I’d love to say the book I wrote has easy, fast answers for everyone to patch up the damage that has just been inflicted. But in the wake of a fall, it takes time, understanding, patience and a willingness to forgive.

Today’s article is  on a very sensitive topic – the devastated spouse. I feel completely unqualified to write this because as the fallen pastor, I hurt my former wife. I’m not going to discuss my previous relationship, instead, I will rely on the interviews I did for my book, “Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World,” and the interactions I’ve had since then with people.

Read more after the jump.

I got an email a few weeks ago from a friend of mine, Ben Simpson, who reminded me of the dangers of pastors loving their churches more than Christ. I suggest you go read his blog. He’s a great thinker and theologian and as a young man, has a lot to offer us in today’s world. He has a heart of gold and much to share in this ever changing world.

He reminded me of a section in my book where I wrote about the church as the pastor’s “first mistress.” Shocked? Well, hold on. Let me go back and explain myself.

I’m writing this series to help people understand all the people who are effected by the fall of an adulterous pastor, or a pastor who falls for any reason. People are left in the wake of his sin. Churches, wives, friends, denominational leadership, associational leadership, family, etc. What is everyone supposed to make of this?

I was there, as a pastor, three years ago, almost to this day. I blogged about it anonymously and wrote a book about it called, “Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World.” It’s a book for fallen pastors, churches who have been betrayed by fallen pastors, wives of fallen pastors, anyone who has sinned greatly, those who distrust religion, and anyone looking for answers. No holds barred. I obviously have a heart to love on anyone who has fallen from grace. Why? Because Christ did. He loves us regardless how far we fall.

But let’s get back to reality. The pastor has committed adultery. He has been caught, red-handed. He has led your church for however many years. He has baptized your children, has led passionate sermons, put together some great programs for the lost, assembled numerous Vacation Bible Schools, but now, he’s a wretch. A complete loser. He violated the seventh commandment. Let’s kick the guy out.

Let me start with this little fact that you, as a church member, may not know. Keep reading after the jump.

When I started working with my editor, Jonathan Brink at Civitas Press, on the idea of writing “Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World,” I had a lot of things I thought I wanted to write about. Thankfully, I had a great editor who got me focused and on task.

Even while I was writing, I had an idea of the people I could reach, but not until it came out did I understand who it was truly for.

Who is the book, “Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World” for?

1. Fallen Pastors, of course.

Statistics tell us that each month, 1,500 pastors leave the ministry due to conflict, burnout or moral failure. Where are they going to? Where do they run to? More importantly, these guys didn’t just wake up one day and say, “Hey, I think I’ll commit adultery!”

Truth be known, the life after a fall is very lonely. I’m not asking for sympathy for the fallen pastor, but it is something that needs to be understood. He is suddenly a lonely, rejected figure who now will carry around the Scarlet “A” on his chest for the rest of his life. Depression, anxiety and suicide may cross his mind. He may never find a church to even visit again.

There are a lot of fallen ministers in our midst. There are actually several ministries designed to help them, but they are overloaded and there aren’t enough of them. Worse, many fallen pastors never reach out for the help they need. Why? Well, one reason is the way in which they are cast out. Too often, once a pastor’s sin is discovered, he’s thrown out with the garbage. That leads us to #2 . . .

2. The Church Culture

After many discussions with my editor, his main concern was that pastors were falling in the first place. “Why are they falling?” he asked me. “There have to be reasons besides their own sin.”

It was a hard thing to tackle. It’s hard to write a book about circumstances around the falls of pastors without sounding like you’re trying to make excuses for your own adultery. But I did the best I could.

So I set out to interview a lot of fallen pastors, counselors, seminary people, and whoever would talk to me. I wanted to know, “Has something been going on in our churches where our knee-jerk reaction is to simply kick out the pastor when we find out he has committed adultery?” And that is the norm. Against everything we find in Galatians 6:1, we just run the minister out of town.

But again, that’s a hard thing to write to people who are angry, hurt and upset over a minister who has stood in the pulpit and preached truth to them for so long. It’s kind of a no win situation.But I tried my best.

3. For people whose pastor fell

It hurts. It really hurts when your pastor falls. There are all kinds of feelings that a church goes through. But through reading, I hope a church can do more than just identify with a fallen pastor. I hope they can take the first steps toward forgiveness. The first steps toward reconciliation.

It won’t be easy. It won’t be a short process. It will however, be worth it if it is done right.

4. For pastors who haven’t fallen

Hey, guess what? All of us frail, sinful people are moments away from sliding down that slippery slope. Pastors? None of us are exempt. I used to think I was. I used to be the guy who thought, “That could never happen to me.” Then after conflict, tragedy after tragedy, there I was, faced with it all. And I fell. And I fell hard.

Some people have read my book and didn’t like it. Some have read it and liked it a lot. Some in both groups used a similar word: “Sickening.” When they read of the sins that had been committed by fallen pastors, they were nauseated. That’s how we should feel when we sin against a holy God.

I didn’t go into graphic detail in the book about the affairs, but I let people know that there is sin against God involved.

So who is this book for? Really everyone. It’s even for people who don’t feel holy enough to get into heaven. You’re not. Just read the book and find out that all of us are a bunch of sinners in need of grace. Join the club and know how great and deep the love and grace of Christ is.

_______________________________

“Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World” is available at Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble online, Buy.com, Books-a-Million Online, the Civitas Press store, for the Amazon Kindle and other online retailers.

Photo by Ilona Wellman, The Stranger

Thank goodness the temperature is dropping. I thought the summer of 105 degree heat indexes was going to last forever. I walked outside today to my favorite weather. High 70s to low 80s. Rain. I thought it was heavenly.

Change is good. Most of the time. Don’t tell that to a bunch of Baptists during a business meeting. Change usually means progress and forward movement. But change can also bring danger and sin.

I’ve talked to a lot of pastors since my own fall from ministry who were thinking of leaving their wives for another woman. For that matter, I’ve talked to non-pastors as well.

Typically, they sense something has changed in the relationship with their wife. That is the biggest factor. The problems may have begun years ago, but there comes a day where they just sense they want something else. For some men (or women) they find a relationship with someone that is completely different than they had with their spouse.

The new relationship is change. It starts out with conversation, texts, lunch dates and can easily accelerate. The new person offers them what their spouse didn’t give them. Change. Newness.

Now, this may sound ridiculous, but I’m throwing it out there. In my book, “Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World,” I talk about factors that lead a pastor who never would have considered an affair before to the point of failure. I talk about isolation, church conflict, tragedy, and becoming idolized.

Those things do have a tremendous influence in the breaking down of the American pastor. Thom Rainer had a great article recently about depression and anxiety showing the stress pastors are under.

But there does come a day when the pastor makes his choice. And his choice is all his. Make no mistake, the reason he ultimately cheats is typically a bad relationship with his wife. I don’t write that to put it on his wife. Ministry can have a horrific impact on spouses and they need to work together to stay strong.

The danger is when the pastor begins to blame everything else for his ultimate failure. When he makes that choice, the season may have just changed and Spring may have just settled. In his mind, he may feel renewed and ready to start a new relationship. Does that sound strange? It shouldn’t. All of us who engage in sin look for justification for our sin.

We may blame our church for treating us so poorly. Yeah, things may have been bad at church, but church doesn’t drive

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us to commit adultery. We may have walked through grief, and that grief may have been horrific, but grief is not the direct cause of our fall.

Those are all factors that may push us in the direction in which we feel justified to sin. But in the end, we are typically unsatisfied with our spouse and pursuing our own desires.

There are two important things to remember. First, the pastor is human and vulnerable just like the rest of us to faulty thinking, sin, and bad relationships. Second, anyone who falls is worthy of restoration back to Christ. We are to pursue those who fall in love, in person, and encourage their repentance.

If they don’t repent? We don’t cast them into the trash heap of society. We still leave the door open. We still love them. Major sin has a huge effect on people and it may take years before they turn to God and pursue holiness again. Will they look exactly like they did before? No. But we are to forgive as Christ did.

The season is changing now. If you’re vulnerable, find out where. You may be vulnerable and not realize it. Find a friend to talk to. Pour out your frustrations and heart and get an objective view.

Let all your change be positive and pleasing to the Lord.

_____________________

Interesting article I found in researching for this blog post: http://www.divorcemed.com/Articles/ArticlesByDiane/Affairs.htm

Really? What’s our deal?

Jesus knew we were judgmental people. He even had to make sure it became part of the permanent record: “Judge not, that you not be judged.” (Matthew 7:1, ESV)

Now, before you start up with discernment vs. judgment, let me give you my hillbilly definition of judgment vs. discernment.

Let’s say you just heard Billy Bob cheated on his wife. You say, “Oh my.” In your “Oh my,” you’re thinking, “that’s terrible, I feel sorry for his wife and kids. I hope everyone is okay. That’s such a tough sin to get through.”

Hey, guess what? That’s discernment. That’s knowing what is right from wrong.

But the next thing you say is, “Well, I’d never do that. Billy Bob is such a scoundrel. He’s dirtier than dirt. Why he’s lower than the scum on Satan’s boots. I think I’m gonna pick up the phone and tell everyone/Twitter this/post this on Facebook and let everyone know what a jerk he is.”

That’s judgment. Thinking others to be lower than ourselves because of a sin they committed. The same Bible that we find, “You shall not commit adultery” in also contains “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23, ESV)

None of us are any better than anyone else. Some of us have been justified by Christ, but we’re not better. But man, do we get judgmental. It’s a sin to be judgmental of someone.

When I was a pastor, I had a judgmental streak. I still have an overwhelming sense of justice. That part isn’t so bad, but when it turns to judgmentalism, it’s very bad. If I saw sin, I’d want it gone. Which is good. But I’d go about doing it in a bad way. Not just that, I’d have this self-righteous feeling about myself the entire time. Like I was better than the person sinning.

After I fell, most of that went away. It’s amazing what a great fall can do to you. It’s phenomenal how experiencing the grace of God can transform you into someone who just wants to love sinners more. I get emails from fallen pastors frequently. I just want to help them. Before my fall? I probably would have thought, “That lousy guy couldn’t keep himself straight? Pitiful.”

Not anymore.

Read more after the jump…..

I’m the kind of guy who takes things very personally. Some people are just wired that way. I like to act like things just roll off my back and I really don’t care but I’m pretty sensitive.

For instance, if someone said to me, “You sounded like you didn’t care about Christian issues in your last post about “Chick-Fil-A.” I’d probably get a little upset. (But no one did because apparently since my server changed, my comments are disabled – haha!) I’d take it a little personal. One, because that’s not true and I’d assume they read it wrong. And two, because I do care. And under my strained sarcasm I do have a heart.

I’ve gotten better since I started blogging about not taking things personally, which is a good thing for all of us to learn.

I mention it today for a very serious reason. And this is a blog to be read very, very carefully.

Know why? Because I care about everyone on every side of this issue. Fallen pastors, their spouses, those they’ve been involved with, their churches, their families, their fellow pastors, their children – everyone. Know why? Because they are all worthy of the love and care of Christ.

When a pastor commits adultery and falls from the ministry, it hurts many people. Since my fall, I’ve had time to listen to people on every side of the fall. Of course, I was the adulterous pastor. I knew what it was like to be selfish, leave the ministry and not listen to anyone.

I’ve also had time to listen to the wives of fallen pastors. Hear their side of the story. I’ve also heard from the women who committed adultery with the pastor. I’ve talked to church members and friends of the fallen pastor. I’ve seen this issue from all sides and I must say, it has humbled me even greater than before.

After a pastor commits adultery, it breaks hearts. It wounds people. It makes a story for everyone. Sometimes it ends up on the front page of the newspaper if the church is big enough. It always makes the rounds in gossip in the community. Regardless, it is an act that hurts many people. It angers many. It leaves many asking, “Why? How? What are the reasons?”

Read more after the jump…..

(Over the next few posts, I’m going to talk about several reasons why the book “Fallen Pastor” is for anyone concerned about the future of the church. We are in the midst of a crisis and need to understand how to approach it).

Listen to me. When I graduated from THE Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in December of 2000, I thought I was the bomb. Master of Divinity at my side, I saw great things – in my mind.

I don’t think that made me too different than many other seminary graduates. Well, at least the prideful ones. In my mind, I was going to bag a smaller church, move to a medium sized church, then WHAMMO! I was going to be sitting pretty at a megachurch one day. Heck. I deserved it. I had a seminary degree. In the middle of all those church exchanges, I was going to earn my Doctor of Ministry (so everyone would have to call me “Doctor Ray”, of course) and I would be sitting pretty.

If you read my blog, you know what happened to me in 2009. I committed adultery. Pastoral ministry was a thing of the past. It was long gone. My relationship with my first wife was over and irreconcilable. I married Allison and we moved on. I started anonymously blogging after that and wrote a book about what happened and how future pastors could avoid the temptation of moral failure.

I interviewed a lot of fallen pastors. Their stories broke my heart because they sounded identical to mine – and I’ll blog about that later.

But I also interviewed a lot of experts. One in particular was Hershael York. His official title is the Victor and Louise Lester Professor of Christian Preaching at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He is also the Associate Dean of Ministry and Proclamation.

I interviewed him for my book. But before I get to that, let me tell you what I thought about him when I was at seminary.

I was scared to death of him. I heard horror stories. “If you want an easy ‘A’, don’t take Dr. York. Seriously. He will tear you up and spit you out.” Then I would hear this: “But if you want to become the best preacher possible, take him as many times as you can. He will make you into an honorable preacher and a man of God.”

I heard one apocryphal story (apocryphal meaning, ‘If it isn’t true, it should be’) that a student went up to him and said, “I want you to grade me as hard as you can on my sermon.” He agreed. After the student minister was done, Dr. York gave him the heavy hand on everything he had done wrong, but said, “You have a great heart and a ton of potential. You will do well.”

That scared me. I stayed far away from Dr. York while in seminary. I got ‘A’s’ while in seminary in my preaching classes. But I’ll tell you this – all of my friends who took him for preaching have become phenomenal ministers of the gospel. They took him and his loving criticism and became better men for it. Thank God for men like Hershael York.

It wasn’t until over a year ago that I even talked to him. I was a miserable fallen pastor looking for help with my book. I heard that he had a heart for fallen pastors. At that time, I had perceived him to be some seminary professor living in an ivory tower, ready to destroy anyone who was full of sin. But I was terribly, terribly wrong. My first instinct came when I got his voicemail. It said, “You know who it is, you know what to do.” BEEEEEEEEEP. I let my daughter, who was 12 at the time listen to that. She loved it so much it’s her voicemail to this day.

When I interviewed him about fallen pastors and what they go through, I found a man who was so loving, so caring, and yet so passionate, I found myself being counseled by his words. While I was talking to him, I suddenly wished I had taken him for every class possible while I was at Southern.

He listened to my story of my failure, hurt for me and asked me questions. Then he was very honest with me. Scripturally honest with me. It was more than an interview. It was him helping me in my process. One of the first things he said to me was this about pastors who fall:

“It’s like a diamond being cut and polished. I saw this happen once in Tel Aviv. I asked the man cutting the diamond, ‘What happens if you make a misktake? What happens if you cut too deep?’ The cutter said, ‘Well, then I have to go and cut every other side exactly like that to match.’ So I said, ‘If you miscut you’ve diminished the value of it.’ He said, ‘Absolutely.’ I think of it like that. A man who has fallen, there’s no question he’s diminished something. He’s still a diamond and of great worth, but he’s not what he could have been had he not fallen.”

He was one of the first people who heard through my anger, my problems and spoke directly to me. He read my book and I don’t think he agreed with all I had to say, but he let me quote him anyway. But one quote he gave me is one that I keep close to my heart every day. He said this: If a fallen pastor is going to make it in this world, “his repentance has to be more notorious than his sin.”

We talked about pastors who are looking for comfort beyond their spouses. Men who break and find a woman who is meeting their needs. He brought it down to very simple terms for me:

“Every time you have an affair with anybody, I don’t care who you are, in a sense, you’re having an affair with a fantasy and not a real person. Because the person you’ve got to pay the mortgage with, deal with the kids’ soccer schedule with, the one whose vomit you wipe up when they’re sick, that’s the real person you live with. Twenty minutes in the sack on a Tuesday afternoon is really not love. You’ve got to tell yourself that. You’ve got to awaken yourself to the fact that it’s fantasy. If you end up with the person you had an affair with, I guarantee you once you get married you have to face the same issues and same struggles. You cannot take two totally depraved human beings, stick them in the same house and not have friction.”

Finally, I asked him, “When does a church give up on a pastor? How long do they wait for him to be repentant? How long do they walk with him?” This question had haunted me for a long time and Dr. York gave me a very down to earth answer:

“A church’s posture has to be guided by whether or not there is repentance, because your posture has to be one thing if a person is living in defiance and embracing their sin. Then you have to confront. 1 Corinthians 5 kicks in and Paul describes as turning them over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. There’s nothing pretty about that. But if a person is broken and repentant over their sin, even if they want to be and they’re not there yet, but they want to be. They may say, ‘It’s hard for me to leave this 23 year old girl who thinks I hung the moon and go back to a wife I struggled with for the past 20 years, but I want to do that because it honors the Lord.’ Well, if a guy says that, then by all means, you’ve got to walk that walk with him, or see that someone does. Because sometimes the unity of the church matters too and the leaders in the church have to take care of the church but what they cannot do is just abandon the one in sin and say, ‘Well, you’re on your own.’”

I love Dr. York. He’s been at the forefront of a lot of political issues in the Bluegrass state and hasn’t backed down. He is a man of great character and loves his wife deeply. He knows what is at stake for pastors and lets the men he teaches at seminary know the dangers. I am proud of him and that Southern has such a great man there to help them.

I was intrigued recently by a Twitter/Facebook interaction he had regarding the removal of Joe Paterno’s statue at Penn State.

His first post said this: The removal of the Paterno statue is brutal evidence of the limitations of human judgment. “All of our heroes are flawed–except One.”

Of course, he got some flak from people who didn’t understand the point he was trying to make. Then he posted this: “Will they be taking Michelangelo’s David down now?” The idea is that since David committed adultery and killed Bathsheba’s husband, should we take down Michelangelo’s David? Excellent point. But he still got grief.

Then, the most beautiful post of the day, which I referenced in a recent post of mine: “To clarify my previous tweets, I fully support the removal of the Paterno statue. My point is that the people we idolize are all fallen.”

When I interviewed him, that was the underlying idea. We are all fallen. Every one of us. Every one of us is moments away from a fall. But that’s why we all need to be surrounded by accountability, strong wives, and an understanding of the fear of God.

In fact, he told me at one point – and I don’t have the exact quote – that if he fell from the ministry, he would have nothing. He’d be delivering pizzas. He has an amazing fear of God, something that is strangely missing from this society and from many of our pastors. It was missing from me.

When we lack the fear of God, we will no longer fear man. Or our sin. Or ourselves. That’s what Dr. York taught me. I wish I had learned it from him sooner. I wish I hadn’t been afraid to take his classes when I was a student at Southern.

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All quotes from Dr. York were taken from his Facebook page or from “Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World” by Ray Carroll. This post was approved by Dr. York before it was published and I am indebted to him for that.